Mr. Kareem opens up with a quote :
But, he omits the next two verses (I wonder why?):
This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. (Acts 22:23-24)
He continues:
True. The Bible is the Word of God and contains the message of Jesus Christ. The Qur'an mentions Jesus, but tells us very little about His teachings. Also, as a Christian who has studied the Qur'an, I regard its contractions of the teachings of the Bible as proof that it is not from God.
Really? Please read Luke 22: 66-71:
At daybreak the council of the elders of the people, both the chief priests and teachers of the law, met together, and Jesus was led before them. "If you are the Christ, [Messiah]" they said, "tell us." Jesus answered, "If I tell you, you will not believe me, and if I asked you, you would not answer. But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God." They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am." Then they said, "Why do we need any more testimony? We have heard it from his own lips."
As for worship: "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth" (Philippians 2:10)
Jesus spoke clearly and those who heard Him understood exactly what He was saying. The God of the Bible speaks through words and history and does not constantly hit us with pronouncements such as "We did this" and "We did that".
He was.
Let's see.
True, this was a title given by God to men who pleased Him and walked in accordance with His law by His Holy Spirit. The main point to remember is that Adam, and therefore all humans, are the creation of God. We become His children by adoption, through the blood of Jesus Christ. Jesus was not created, He always existed. However, we must read the verses in context:
Adam was a "son" of God through his creation, however, Adam sinned and died. More on Adam in another section.
Please quote the verse accurately (note that "sons" has a small s):
the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.
The "sons of God" were from the family of Seth, and they were very religious which is why they were given this title. The "daughters of men were the descendants of apostate Cain. These mixed marriages between peoples with opposite principles and practice were the source of extensive corruption. The women would, as wives and mothers, exert an influence fatal to the existence of religion in their household, and consequently the people of that later age sank into depravity. [Some theologians believe that the "sons of God" were angels]
Once again, you need to quote the text more accurately (note the small s ):
The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. Then say to Pharaoh, `This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son, and I told you, "Let my son go, so he may worship me." But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.'" (Exodus 4:21-23).
God is referring to Israel as His son (small s), and is threatening the Pharaoh. This is not the same as calling Jesus the Son of God.
The verse says:
They will come with weeping; they will pray as I bring them back. I will lead them beside streams of water on a level path where they will not stumble, because I am Israel's father, and Ephraim is my firstborn son.
Ephraim, in this verse, represents the ten tribes that are no longer severed from Judah. God often referred to Israel as His son:
Hosea 11:1 "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.
Romans 9:4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises.
No, Psalm 2:7 reads: I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: He said to me, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father.
The interpretation of this passage is a description of the inauguration of Christ as Mediatorial King.
Really? Have you ever heard a Jewish person use this metaphor? Also, following your reasoning, would you then say (from an Islamic perspective) that Jesus is a god (with a small g)? I doubt that you would!
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son..."
Christians wish to say that the word Only Begotten (Monogenis) gives Jesus a special status among all the Sons of God.
However, not all Bibles translate the passage with this key word because some translators have seen the difficulty this causes.
To begin with, the author erroneously assumes that the reason why Bible translations do not render the word monogenes as ‘Only Begotten’ is because of some apparent difficulty that this rendering poses which the translators are seemingly aware of. The real reason why different Bible translations render the Greek word differently has nothing to do with any alleged difficulty with the expression ‘Only Begotten’, but with trying to accurately render the Greek word in English.
Scholars of New Testament Greek are aware that monogenes is composed of two Greek words, namely monos (one) and genos (kind). Thus, monogenes is more accurately translated as the only one of his/her/its kind, or the unique one. This is why some translators render the Greek as one and only, as opposed to only begotten (cf. the article Does the Bible say "Begotten"?).
In relation to the Lord Jesus, monogenes means that he is the only One of his kind, the unique Son of God, since no one else is God's son in exactly the same sense that Jesus is.
The author continues:
In the case of Isaac the Church explains that "only-begotten" is not to be understood strictly but must be modified. However, no such modification is allowed in the case of John 3:16.
No modification is necessary since the example of Isaac serves to prove our point. Although Abraham had many other sons, Isaac was the only son promised by God, the only one singled out as the child of the covenant promises. Thus, Isaac wasn't just Abraham's only son from Sarah, but the only son according to the promises of God, the very heir of the covenant. This is why Abraham sent his other sons, by other wives, away (see Genesis 25:6). In other words, Isaac is monogenes in the sense of being the only one of his kind.
Likewise, Jesus is monogenes in the sense of being unique, the only Son of his kind.
Furthermore, Abraham as a father, was willing to offer up his only son as a picture, a foreshadowing of the life of Jesus, the one and only Son of God whom the Father gave up in order to demonstrate God's love for sinners.
Yes, if you consider the miraculous birth of Jesus in the context of prophecy and scripture:
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. [God with us]. Isaiah 7:14.
No. Adam was created by God, albeit sinless. Jesus always existed, unlike Adam, and, like Adam, entered the world sinless. The Bible does compare Adam and Jesus:
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 1 Corinthians 15:45
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.1 Corinthians 15:22
We Christians call God Father. We are His children by adoption through the blood of Jesus Christ. However, God is Jesus' Father and that makes Jesus His Son and they are equal in nature and being:
However, Islam has never actually defined what "Messiah" means theologically.
The word "Messiah", or "Mashiyach" in Hebrew, is a both a title and an action. The terms "Messiah" is used 39 times in the Old Testament and, depending on the context of the text, can refer to one who is anointed, the Messiah or Messianic prince (Jesus), the king of Israel, the high priest of Israel, Cyrus, or the patriarchs. The main thing to remember is that, during the time of Jesus, the Jews were looking for the promised Savior who was prophesied in great detail by the Prophets of the Old Testament.
John 9:38: "Lord, I believe, and he worshiped him."
Matthew 28:17: "they saw him, they worshiped him".
True.
Complete nonsense, even though there are several Muslims who repeat this here and there. For a detailed discussion of this word, see the articles Shibli Zaman and the Abuse of Etymology and Zaman and Etymology [Revisited].
"Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face and worshiped Daniel..." (Daniel 2:46, KJV)
Wait a minute! Since we are fond of translating the original texts, the Hebrew word for "worship" in this verse is "C'gid" which means to prostrate oneself or pay homage. This word is used 12 times in the Old Testament and usually refers to bowing to a man or to a physical entity - not to God.
Because he was receiving homage, not worship.
And that is the accurate translation!
My Bible does not "hide" these facts! The meaning of the word "Messiah", as well as most other words, depends on the context in which it is used.
In interpreting this, Christians maintain that Thomas was addressing Jesus by both of these titles. The Muslim would have no objection to the term Lord.
Thomas said to him, "My Lord [Greek : "kurious"] and my God [Greek : "Theos"]!" (John 20:28)
Please note that "kurios" means "lord" - the term to which Muslims do not object.
like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master r [Greek : "kurious"]. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear. (1 Peter 3:6)
Note that Sarah called Abraham "kurios" or master, not God. I do not follow your reasoning except for the possibility that you are attempting to mislead the reader!
No. Thomas clearly called Jesus God [Theos]! We have already discussed the issue of others being called "gods", but if you need more information, please read this.
Read the verse in context:
1 Corinthians 8:4-6: So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
Please tell me what "new rules" does Paul give us?
This ancient heresy has been branded by the Church as Patripassianism, Moarchianism, or Sebellianism. The impossibility of an orthodox interpretation of Thomas is now apparent.
Who said that Jesus is the Father?
No.
A strictly literal explication would mean the unacceptable doctrine that Jesus is the Father. So interpreters say that Father is here equivalent to God. However, we cannot possibly be obliged to understand that Jesus meant to say that seeing him was exactly the same as seeing God because he was God. Our reason is found in the contrariety of John 5:37 You have neither heard His (God) voice at any time nor seen his form.
Who said that Jesus was the Father? I have NEVER heard any Christian say this!
Even if Jesus meant to claim by these words that he was alive before Abraham was, is it sufficient ground to say that he was divine?
Yes it does. Since God the Father and God the Son have always existed, Jesus is divine and that is exactly what this verse says!
However not such similar understanding is permitted by the Church in the case of John 8:58!
Lets look at Jeremiah 1:5:
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."
This passage DOES NOT say that the Prophet Jeremiah existed throughout eternity, as does Jesus. It simply say that God knew of Jeremiah and his prophetic mission in advance.
But here is the key to another deception. The original of the first text is in Hebrew, while the original of the second is in Greek. All but a few of Jesus' words are recorded in Greek.
Another deception!?!? From whom?
If the gospel writer in John 8:58 wanted to tell his Greek-speaking audience that Jesus had imitated God he would have used the familiar words of the Septuagint.
Since HO ON can mean, "The Being", The Existing One", or simply "The One" let us see what happens when we insert this word in place of EGO EIMI:
"I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, the Being."
"I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, the Existing One."
As you can see for Jesus to have simply uttered HO ON would have been bad grammar.
Secondly, HO ON is applied to the Lord Jesus in a context that clearly echoes Exodus 3:14:
The One that is coming is the One who was pierced, which is clearly a reference to the Lord Jesus Christ. In verse 8, Christ claims to be the HO ON that is to come, namely the Almighty.
Since the Hebrew word hayah in Exodus 3 carries the meaning of "I was, am, and will be", we see that Jesus is clearly identifying himself as the I AM of Exodus.
Thirdly, Jesus’ EGO EIMI is used to contrast Christ’s timeless existence with Abraham’s creation:
The verb genesthai refers to a point of origin. The verb demonstrates that unlike Abraham who came into existence, Christ has always existed. This in itself is sufficient to refute Kareem’s assertion since Christ is clearly claiming to be eternal and is therefore God.
In any event, the audience who heard Jesus knew exactly what He was saying (that He was God) and wanted to kill Him for blasphemy:
Where is the deception Mr Kareem?
But the verse at John 12:49, among others, explains very well how a man could make such a statement. In this verse Jesus denies any personal initiative. (see also John 8:40; 14:10)
Read those verses in context. They are beautiful and contradict everything that you are attempting to claim that they say.
The disciples were not divine, however, Jesus was. In fact, Jesus not only had the power to forgive sins, he also had the power to give others the ability to forgive sins!
Exactly what this verse is supposed to prove is left vague by the Christian. Does it prove the divinity of Jesus? Is it supposed to mean that God listens to no one except Jesus or those who call on Jesus?
Yes, it does!
You are confusing connotative and denotative meanings. Jesus said that He was THE WAY. He did not say that He was "a" way, "one" way, or "one of many" ways - He said that He was THE WAY. No Prophet of God ever said that he was THE WAY to God. Jesus Christ is "THE WAY" to the Father--"no man cometh unto the Father but by Me"; He is "THE TRUTH" of all we find in the Father we find in Him, "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form" (Col 2:9); and, He is "THE LIFE" that will flow to us and bless us from the God who is approached and thus manifested in Him "this is the true God and eternal life" (1 John 5:20). The main message of this passage is that the Son is the ordained and is the perfect manifestation of God the Father.
Jesus also claimed to be the Truth. Do you consider this to be a serious statement? After all, one of the early Sufis, Al-Hallaj (858-922 A.D.), once said "I am the Truth" and he was crucified as a heretic by orthodox Muslims in 922 A.D. Mr. Kareem probably does not realize that Jesus is, once again, claiming to be divine in this passage. When Jesus says "I am the life," He is actually claiming to be God. Life is on of the prerogatives of God and God alone. In fact, one of Allah's 99 names is Al-Hayy: The Living. Also Al-Haqq: The Truth is another attribute of God and God alone.
I am not sure what President Clinton has to do with the discussion at hand. He never claimed to be the way, the truth, and the life.
At John 10:30 Jesus is quoted as saying I and the Father are one. The Greek word translated One is HEN. Certain scholars have insisted that the only possible understanding of this word is One in essence or nature.
These certain scholars, to which the author refers, are correct as we shall demonstrate in a moment.
One need not be a Greek scholar to refute this unjustified claim. A counter example is sufficient. The same word is used by Jesus in John 17:11, 21,22,23 as he includes his disciples in this ONEness, whatever the meaning.
The author erroneously assumes that if he can show where the Greek word hen is used to refer to unity, as opposed to essence, this somehow sufficiently counters the Trinitarian understanding of John 10:30. Yet different words mean different things in different contexts. In John 17:11, 21-23 the context shows that hen refers to unity in purpose and mission.
Yet the context of John 10:30 is completely different. We present the context in order to demonstrate that hen here means more than unity in purpose and mission:
"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I GIVE THEM ETERNAL LIFE, and they shall never perish; NO ONE CAN SNATCH THEM OUT OF MY HAND. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.’" John 10:27-30
Compare this to what the OT says about Yahweh:
"See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me. I put to death AND I BRING TO LIFE, I have wounded and I will heal, AND NO ONE CAN DELIVER OUT OF MY HAND." Deuteronomy 32:39
"The Lord brings death AND MAKES ALIVE; he brings down to the grave and raises up." 1 Samuel 2:6
"‘You are my witnesses,’ declares the Lord, ‘and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior. I have revealed and saved and proclaimed- I, and not some foreign god among you. You are my witnesses,’ declares the Lord, ‘that I am God. Yes, and from ancient days I am he. NO ONE CAN DELIVER OUT OF MY HAND. When I act, who can reverse it?’" Isaiah 43:10-13
Jesus Christ claims to do what the OT says God alone can do, namely grant eternal life and preserve believers from perishing. Christ also claims to have the sovereign power to prevent anyone from snatching his people from him. It is in this sense that Jesus is claiming to be one with Father, namely one in essence, nature and power.
Furthermore, in his haste to refute the Trinitarian understanding of John 10:30, the author failed to meditate carefully on John 17:11, 21-23. If he had he would have seen that these passages actually prove that Jesus is God:
"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I IN THEM and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me… I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them AND THAT I MYSELF MAY BE IN THEM." John 17:20-23, 26
Jesus claims that he will be in all of his followers. The only way for Christ to be in his disciples is if he were omnipresent. Yet for Christ to be omnipresent means that Jesus is God, since only God is omnipresent.
Finally, Jesus claims that unity with the Father can only come from being united to the Son. Without the Son there is no union with God. This means that Muslims are severed from God since they refuse to acknowledge that Jesus Christ is God's one and only Son. In so doing, the judgment of God remains upon them:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." John 3:16-18
We therefore see that far from proving the author's attempts of disproving the Deity of Christ, these passages actually reaffirm it.
This is a false claim refuted by Jesus himself: No-one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, NOR THE SON, but only the Father. Matthew 24:36.
This verse also denies the claim the God and Jesus are ONE is essence or nature.
Jesus did not know the hour because he assumed our human nature and, like all of us, needed to live by faith and obedience. Jesus could have been unaware of the hour because He was fully human just like us yet without sin. (cf. Hebrews 4:15)
Being fully human Jesus grew in wisdom and knowledge since he had a real human consciousness and soul. (cf. Luke 2:40, 52)
Yet being fully God, Jesus also had a divine mind and will. As far as his divine consciousness was concerned, Christ was omniscient and immutable:
"Philip found Nathanael and told him, ‘We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote-Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.’ ‘Nazareth! Can anything good come from there?’ Nathanael asked. ‘Come and see,’ said Philip. When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, ‘Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is nothing false.’ ‘How do you know me?’ Nathanael asked. Jesus answered, ‘I SAW you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you.’ Then Nathanael declared, ‘Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel.’" John 1:45-49
Jesus could see Nathanael and know all he did without having to actually be physically present.
"Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many people saw the miraculous signs he was doing and believed in his name. But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all men. He did not need man’s testimony about man, for he knew what was in a man." John 2:23-25
"Now we can see that you know all things and that you do not even need to have anyone ask you questions. This makes us believe that you came from God.’ ‘You believe at last!’ Jesus answered." John 16:30-31
"‘The third time he said to him, ‘Simon son of John, do you love me?’ Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, ‘Do you love me?’ He said, ‘Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.’ John 21:17
Compare the above with what is said about God:
"whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything." 1 John 3:20
"Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God." 1 Corinthians 4:5
The Lord that will come and expose what is in a man's heart is none other than the Lord Jesus:
"Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 1:7-8
For Jesus to be able to expose what is in the hearts of every man affirms that he is omniscient since only one who is omniscient can know everything that a man thinks and feels.
"but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God." 1 Corinthians 1:23-24
Since God's power and wisdom are both eternal and infinite, this means that Jesus' power and wisdom is eternal and infinite as well.
"My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." Colossians 2:2-3
The only way that Jesus can contain within himself all of God's treasures and wisdom is if he were fully God, precisely what Paul goes on to say:
"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." Colossians 2:9
"But about the Son he says... He also says, ‘In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.’" Hebrews 1:8a, 10-12
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." Hebrews 13:8
"These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze… Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds." Revelation 2:18a, 23b
Compare the words of Jesus with what the OT says about Yahweh God:
"then hear from heaven, your dwelling place. Forgive and act; deal with each man according to all he does, since you know his heart (for you ALONE know the hearts of all men)." 1 Kings 8:39
"I the Lord search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve." Jeremiah 17:10
"‘because they have acted foolishly in Israel, and have committed adultery with their neighbors' wives and have spoken words in My name falsely, which I did not command them; and I am He who knows and am a witness,’ declares the LORD." Jeremiah 29:23 NASB
Finally:
"These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God." Revelation 3:1
"Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth." Revelation 5:6
For Christ to have seven eyes means that Christ has perfect discernment and wisdom.
These verses conclusively show that Jesus is one divine Person having two natures and two wills, being both fully human and fully divine at the same time.
· ...All power is GIVEN unto me in heaven. Mat 28:18 · I cast out devils BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD... Mat 12:28 · I can of mine OWN SELF do nothing... John 5:30
All the miracles performed by Jesus have parallels in the Old Testament. For example:
· Fed the Multitudes: II Kings 4:42-44 · Healed the lepers and blind: so did others I Kings 5:14; 6:17,20; · Acts 3:7; 5:15-16) · Brought the dead to life: So did others: I Kings 17:22; II Kings 13:21; Ezek 37:1-14) · Rose from the dead: So did others Ezek 37:1-14
Many people throughout history, and even today, claim to have messages from God. God's Prophets proved their credibility, as well as the credibility of their revelations, through performing miracles and uttering prophecies - detailed predictions of future events which could be tested for their authenticity. It must also be noted here that Muhammad is claimed to be a Prophet by Muslims in spite of the fact that he DID NOT perform any miracles and gave no prophecies, at least none that came true.
The miracles performed by Jesus proves that He and His message are from God. The proof for the belief that Jesus was God is not derived from His miracles alone, but from many other verses in the Bible.
The above approach of comparing to others "who did similarly" is copied down from Dr. Badawi's Jesus in the Qur'an and the Bible. For a detailed response, we refer the reader to the excellent rebuttal by Sam Shamoun.
Mr. Kareem leaves us with two passages from the Qur'an:
Who worships, or has ever worshiped, Mary as a god? This passage implies that Mary is a member of the Trinity which she is not. The Qur'an is clearly in error when it accuses Christians of making Mary equal to God. This suggests, to me at least, that this verse is not from an all-knowing God because God would know the definition of the Trinity.
First of all, Christians never claimed that "God is the Christ" - that is absurd and, once again, the Qur'an is in error. Second, you use an inaccurate translation of the Qur'an since there is no word for "Trinity" in the Qur'an, the term "three" is more accurate. To learn more about the Trinity, please read The Biblical Model of the Trinity, and The Holy Trinity and al-Qur'an.
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